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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #31 
Ok.. this guy is using fake products. Nobody is buying real juvederm voluma at even close to that price and intact France is pricier than the UK

It's most likely the fake shit coming out of China for €50 a box. The boxes are really good fakes but it's basically low grade macrolene apparently. It's possible to trace the real JV , Androfill are going to put up the system on their website soon. They are well aware of this guy in Antibes.

Dr Horn has had two guys from this doc , the one had to have a full dissolve and start fresh. Horn said it looked like a low grade macrolene but even less smooth abs categorically not voluma.

Do not risk this. Seriously you've been warned. This doc may not know he's buying fake shit but if he had any professionalism about it he would buy from allergen.

I had my missus mate read a bunch of reviews in french last night and it smacked of made up bullshit.

Caveat emptor.

You get what you pay for IMO.
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mato23

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat744
well i screened all the french forums and espcially on doctissimo there are a lot of very good coment about him ..

too good actually, those seems to be pretty obvious chills.. (the kind that would have been busted pretty quick here ) poeple posting with suposendtly real names, obvious pattern in reviews structures, poeple bragging way too much how sex is so much better for them and girlfriend and saying that that they will go for more now that they are at 15 cm so they can get to 18 cm, and saying that its fine if other don t want to do it and stay with a small d... then you can find some of the same coments on the videos (and sometimes on every one of the three videos !) with no other liked video ..

eventhough it s a comon comercial strategy and i know procedure is not that risky, this is more off putting for me than the price which i could have find an explanation for it .. i am still going to have an other conversation with him about that next week and let you know its still seems worth  a try

I think you can buy the product yourself and ask him how much it'll cost. Or, since every single Allergan product has a double sticker label with a number on it, and doctors are supposed to give you one, if he does so.
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mato23

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat744



Yes i know i saw it as well because i was trying to figure out, that s when i suspected he was using a "voluma" but maybe not JUVERDEM voluma..i asked a price estimation for supplier of juvederm that seemed cheap to have an idea. but in any case those will be distributors so not the kind of price doctors actually have


In Europe, customs issues apart, you can't use those Chinese stuff, medicines have to be certified and approved, kinda FDA, it's CE. If a doctor does such things must be turned in. In France there are strict regulations doctors must comply with.
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mato23

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterphall
Ok.. this guy is using fake products. Nobody is buying real juvederm voluma at even close to that price and intact France is pricier than the UK

It's most likely the fake shit coming out of China for €50 a box. The boxes are really good fakes but it's basically low grade macrolene apparently. It's possible to trace the real JV , Androfill are going to put up the system on their website soon. They are well aware of this guy in Antibes.

Dr Horn has had two guys from this doc , the one had to have a full dissolve and start fresh. Horn said it looked like a low grade macrolene but even less smooth abs categorically not voluma.

Do not risk this. Seriously you've been warned. This doc may not know he's buying fake shit but if he had any professionalism about it he would buy from allergen.

I had my missus mate read a bunch of reviews in french last night and it smacked of made up bullshit.

Caveat emptor.

You get what you pay for IMO.


I think you're right, but why Androfill make you pay 450 per ml where you can easily buy it at 100?
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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #35 
You can't buy JV for £100 even they can't in the huge qty they buy from Allergen direct. I estimate they are paying about £145 inc vat per ml.

They charge a fortune like all places like this. You're paying for the experienced doctoretc. Plus it gets a lot cheaper as you buy more and they retrospectively reduce your price as you go.

Just an interesting note but dr Horn insurance per year us £32k and I'll bet a Harley street address isnt cheap. You're paying for a safe experience I guess. Ultimately you're sorta paying not to go to a random guy in Antibes who seemingly isn't very good at his craft and who uses fake product.

For me, I just feel safe at androfill but everybody has to make their own choice.

I think it's terrifying there's fake Chinese JV out there. Guess I'm paying to be sure I'm safe from the bulkshit.
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mat744

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Reply with quote  #36 
out of curiosity what did dr horn said about the antibe guy exactly ? i guess he must have him on the radar from a while as he as good visibility online 
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mato23

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterphall
You can't buy JV for £100 even they can't in the huge colum they buy from Allergen direct. I estimate they are paying about £145 inc vat per ml.

They charge a fortune like all places like this. You're paying for the experienced doctor , etc. Plus it gets a lot cheaper as you buy more wry and they retrospectively reduce your price.

Just an interesting note but dr Horn insurance per year us £32k and I'll bet a Harley street address istn cheap. You're paying for x safe experience I guess. Ultimately you're sorta paying not to go to a random guy in Antibes who seemingly isn't very good at his craft and who uses fake product.

For me, I just feel safe at androfill but everybody has to make their own choice. I can't think it's terrifying there's fake Chinese JV out there. Guess I'm paying to be sure I'm safe from the bulkshut.


Maybe it's a kind of cartel agreement. I know for sure you can buy Voluma at around 100 €. My friend doctor was offered Voluma by an Allergan vendor at 95 if he would have bought 100 boxes. I agree that the guy has too low prices but ain't someone who apply a fair fee? I mean in Europe, in USA and Australia medicines prices are way higher. If you do 1 ml the price could be 450 or more because you have to pay the product and the doctor job, but if you get injected 5,10 or 20 it isn't fair to simply multiply the price.
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jogift

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Reply with quote  #38 
Allergan needs vendors or sell directly to doctors? A serious safety issue has been raised here and wish there are means to ascertain this. There is the possibility for expensive doctors to buy the same shit but raise their prices on it because they think they've already made a good name and putting this name tag on it ...
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mat744

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Reply with quote  #39 
allergans can sell directly to doctors or though vendors, what they don t do is selling B2C so you need to be a health professional and register to them.

when i asked them they refused to disclose if a specific doctor is buying from them directly or not which i find a bit a lack of corporate responsability..

they served me bullshit like " the main point here is that you have to trust your doctor to start with, if you don t trust him maybe the issue is there and you should jsut not do it .." i am NOT talking  about my familly doctor here .. its a professional service and if i see redflags in the pricing its normal I try to figure it out if they are selling me a 10 euros rollex or if this is legit... their reaction kind of annoyed me to be honest
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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat744
allergans can sell directly to doctors or though vendors, what they don t do is selling B2C so you need to be a health professional and register to them.

when i asked them they refused to disclose if a specific doctor is buying from them directly or not which i find a bit a lack of corporate responsability..

they served me bullshit like " the main point here is that you have to trust your doctor to start with, if you don t trust him maybe the issue is there and you should jsut not do it .." i am talking about my familly doctor here .. its a professional service and if i see redflags in the pricing its normal I try to figure it out if they are selling me a 10 euros rollex or if this is legit... their reaction kind of annoyed me to be honest 


That sounds like the most unprofessional bullshit I've ever heard.  The first sentance sounds like something an internet troll would give you not a professional surgical representative.  I would run a mile personally.  Androfill buy from Allergan direct. That way, no potential issues with fakes. 
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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mat744
out of curiosity what did dr horn said about the antibe guy exactly ? i guess he must have him on the radar from a while as he as good visibility online 


I haven't spoken to Dr Horn directly about it, but when I saw the pricing I immediately went to Francis at Androfill to query it.   His immediate response when I said it's from a doctor in France was "is that the butcher in Antibes by any chance" ?"

Basically , yes, they have very much heard of him, it's a relatively small business in real terms and anytime somebody offers pricing which is clearly not viable, alarm bells go off and they instantly hear about it.

JV is very expensive direct from Allergan , in the UK at LEAST £145 per ml after they claim a % of the VAT back so anytime there's a story of some doc doing 20 ml for way under the price a  busy, professional practise can even buy it in at , they know - quickly, the news online travels fast.

In the last month, Dr Horn had a guy who had 10 ml from this place in Antibes and he had to disolve the lot and start again and another guy has needed a lot of touch ups , again from Antibes.

I wish JV and Androfill were cheaper, I've honestly spent far too much money there if i'm truthful but I would rather have nothing than risk somebody putting some fake, cheap Chinese filler in dick to  save £1000.00

My 2 cents. 



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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mato23
Maybe it's a kind of cartel agreement. I know for sure you can buy Voluma at around 100 €. My friend doctor was offered Voluma by an Allergan vendor at 95 if he would have bought 100 boxes. I agree that the guy has too low prices but ain't someone who apply a fair fee? I mean in Europe, in USA and Australia medicines prices are way higher. If you do 1 ml the price could be 450 or more because you have to pay the product and the doctor job, but if you get injected 5,10 or 20 it isn't fair to simply multiply the price.


Which Allergan vendor?

I'm willing to be the world, there's something odd about that pricing. 
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Dexterphall

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Reply with quote  #43 
Here's what I have learned along the way.

1. If it's too cheap, there's a reason.  No decent practise is going to do this cheaply. It's an expensive processs and liable to run you in the UK in a reputable practise with a well known doctor with a good reputation on your first lot about £300-£400 a ml IIRC, which drops to about half that price as you get more in future sessions.

2. Do not believe something is JV because it says so on the box, fakes exist. Call wherever you are goign to go to get it done and let them know you are concerned about fakes and you would need to check the boxes. The fear of this alone if they use fakes will probably mean they find a way to put you off coming.   You can check original JV on their website I believe.

3. If the clinic will not give you straightforward answers to straight forward questions, RUN. RUN. RUN.  Seriously, you are having something put in your dick, don't be a fool. No clinic should be acting like that, get them on the phone and if you feel at all scared/cautious about their answers, like they are trying to give you a degree of misdirection or apathy , RUN.

4. Seriously don't inject this stuff yourself. Had a few PM's about this. I guess if you were incredibly experienced you could but look at the horror stories online from people trying to do this.  I just can't understand people taking this kind of risk. You are hugely unlikely to get this right.


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mato23

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterphall


Which Allergan vendor?

I'm willing to be the world, there's something odd about that pricing. 

The Allergan vendor of the area where I live, he sells to all doctors. The issue is another, if you buy hundreds of boxes you'll get it at, maybe 80, but the guy price is 1440 per 20, it doesn't add up.
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mat744

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterphall


That sounds like the most unprofessional bullshit I've ever heard.  The first sentance sounds like something an internet troll would give you not a professional surgical representative.  I would run a mile personally.  Androfill buy from Allergan direct. That way, no potential issues with fakes. 


just to avoid misunderstanding, allergan gave me this answer not the clinic. 
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