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lengthordeath

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Reply with quote  #1 
Disclaimer: this is on behalf of numerous members who wish not to be publicly involved with this discussion.

SO, i thought the reason you introduced the paid membership plan was so you could avoid letting people advertise products and services? Yet shortly after you introduce subscription only and get a bunch of people to drop their money (disclaimer, i personally not being one of them), you go ahead and start offering to let people pimp their shit for some cash with commercial accounts.

at this point it, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if soon we'll be seeing you and the moderators retracting their claims about elist and loria and start let them spam the forum with their dangerous procedures...

 ...and here is the foundation being set for such a scenario:
"Note: PhalloBoards (as both a site & as a Moderation Team) is not responsible in verifying the statements & claims made by our Sponsors (a.k.a. Commercial Accounts), nor do we endorse any opinions, statements, or claims made by our Sponsors.

Oh, you won't let them on the site as they are proven butchers? what about when they start offering you a couple thousand dollars to gain a commercial stronghold on the biggest (and only, really) site based on phalloplasty information, where they can start siren calling to men with their 2-3'' length gain from a simple procedure claims. (caution to everyone, don't believe them when they say that they have improved their procedures so they are now effective, that will just be so the mods and owner can now say "yeah their procedures were unsafe in the past, but they have greatly improved it now so it actually works and is safe"

phalloboards is on a fast track become surgical life enhancement 2.0

It is a real shame that this once great forum has now turned into nothing more than a money grab.

paid memberships are fair enough, but introducing commercial accounts is a low move considering how much you made yourself seem against it in the past. 

I'll discuss this via PM with any of the mods or SO, but for complete transparency why not we keep it in this public thread for everyone to see.
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jd123

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Reply with quote  #2 
You act like your a person of importance! Nobody owes you or any of the other "numerous members" you claim are upset, an explanation for anything. You don't like it here, GTFO.

S.O and the mods have donated thousands of hours. One of them went as far as speaking with me on the phone for a few hours and it was one of the more enlightening and enjoyable talks I've ever had with another person. This place has almost shut down because people refuse to freely donate. You won't even pay the small fee lololol.

This place has been giving and giving and giving for YEARS. Its not like S.O. is making bundles of cash off of here (and if he was, more power to him, he deserves it more than anybody)...He's trying to keep this place up and running without paying out of his own pocket (and countless hours of his time)...

This is the most whiny, entitled, ungrateful post I've ever seen....but at least it made me laugh.


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briceb

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Reply with quote  #3 
Although you have addressed this towards SO, since you invoked the mods, I felt as if I should respond.  

This was not a decision that SO made on his own.   This was heavily discussed among all of the moderators.  Our goal in allowing commercial accounts is to supplement the cost of the site and to curtail spamming.  This is in no way a "money grab" and we will continue to work diligently make sure this does not become SLE or any variation of its kind.  And just so you know, the discussion regarding memberships (both private and commercial) came down to two options: A. both types of memberships or B. closing down the site.  There are so many people who utilize this site to research and gain information and as membership continues to steadily increase, donations have steadily decreased.  Sites are not free and SO has beared the lions share of the cost because it has been his passion to make quality information available.  But after pleas for donations went mostly unanswered, we as a moderation team, discussed ways to keep this site up and running.  We did not want the alternative, as the vacuum would be filled by the likes of people we would not trust. 

Commercial accounts will NEVER be issued to Elist or Loria.  That was set and confirmed at the very beginning of the discussions.  A commercial account will not allow the account holder carte blanche to do or say whatever they wish and it will not protect them from critique, criticism or questioning (including from the moderators).  

We want nothing more than for phalloboards to be the best site for men to look to for quality information and exchange of ideas and experiences.  Allowing commercial accounts will not alter this goal.  This will in no way compromise the integrity of the site.  We encourage all members, both paid and free, to actively participate.



__________________
A clear conscience is the sign of a bad memory.
CURRENT: EL 8"  EG 7" midshaft  FL 7-7.5"  FG 6.25-6.5"
GOALS: EL 9"  EG 7"  FL 8"+  FG 6.5"
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lengthordeath

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Reply with quote  #4 
lol
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briceb

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lengthordeath
lol


I am not quite sure who this is directed towards

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A clear conscience is the sign of a bad memory.
CURRENT: EL 8"  EG 7" midshaft  FL 7-7.5"  FG 6.25-6.5"
GOALS: EL 9"  EG 7"  FL 8"+  FG 6.5"
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dprice

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Reply with quote  #6 
I've been following this website for many many years. My opinion is that you are keeping out ALOT of people that have had the procedure done lately, Myself included - along with about 5 people I know personally. Out of the 6 of us- no one can add their progress reports. This forumn I believe was intended to provide information to people who have had a procedure and to those who have not. I would be happy to provide my results and many complications so that others would be aware of what to expect.. As a multi- business owner my honest opinion is that advertising (to an extent) should be allowed to generate income for the website. However the thoughts of myself and others I have talked to are such that 1. why would we pay to tell others about our personal experiences with girth enhancements, especially when everyone just wants to see Pictures of our penises. This is not a porn site- it's designed to help people make educated decisions about the procedure. 2. By charging people money - you are eliminating ALOT of people that may be willing to share their experiences with the forumn. If you look at the statistics - Dr.C does about 2+ new procedures a day... How many new faces are joining the "Pay " site just so they can share their experiences? Not many... So the question I have is- Do the moderators of the site honestly want to share experiences and learn , or is it turning into an income producing business. From a business standpoint - this is really not the way to build the website and gather new people and information.. Advertising is.

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hoddle10

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lengthordeath
Oh, you won't let them on the site as they are proven butchers? what about when they start offering you a couple thousand dollars to gain a commercial stronghold on the biggest (and only, really) site based on phalloplasty information, where they can start siren calling to men with their 2-3'' length gain from a simple procedure claims. (caution to everyone, don't believe them when they say that they have improved their procedures so they are now effective, that will just be so the mods and owner can now say "yeah their procedures were unsafe in the past, but they have greatly improved it now so it actually works and is safe"

phalloboards is on a fast track become surgical life enhancement 2.0

It is a real shame that this once great forum has now turned into nothing more than a money grab.

paid memberships are fair enough, but introducing commercial accounts is a low move considering how much you made yourself seem against it in the past. 

I'll discuss this via PM with any of the mods or SO, but for complete transparency why not we keep it in this public thread for everyone to see.


To be fair, SO has already been put to the test in this regard. I banned Androfill literally the day after they agreed to a sponsorship (I don't know the details) with SO. Even before I banned them they'd mentioned to SO they weren't happy with the way I was critiquing them. Yet he never asked me to reign things in, even though it could have put them off paying for a commercial account and when I had reason the ban them, as soon as he saw the evidence, he didn't hesitate in acknowledging they had to go. As I said I don't know the details of the deal, as the Mods, as far as I'm aware, have no involvement, but I'm pretty sure it was a lot more than the average donation.
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hoddle10

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dprice
Do the moderators of the site honestly want to share experiences and learn , or is it turning into an income producing business. From a business standpoint - this is really not the way to build the website and gather new people and information.. Advertising is.



Please don't address "the moderators." The commercial side of the forum has nothing to do with any of the Mods as far as I know. Skeptical One is the Adminstrator. It might seem like a petty distinction to you, but as a moderator i think it's only fair you don't address us with your grievances, as we aren't responsible.
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jd123

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Reply with quote  #9 
@dprice

As a multi-business owner myself, why is the small fee of this site such a dilemma for you? Fueling up one of my work trucks cost more than a lifetime membership does.

I don't understand why people are acting like it costs a fortune.
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supa

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Reply with quote  #10 

So that you know: Moderators do not get one penny from subscriptions.

All money goes to SO with the purpose of funding the website, which unless you are totally illiterate internet-wise, does incur costs.

This decision was not taken lightly but the alternative was to shut down the website.

It is simply wrong to claim that the integrity of the website will be compromised as, firstly, 1) phalloboards does not endorse any procedure in particular (for one thing, risk/reward wise I am adamantly against all surgical and bioplastic procedures, unless you truly were dealt a micropenis). In addition, 2) commercial sponsors are not allowed to shill: they can introduce their procedures here but in an absolutely transparent manner, so that their vested interest is known to us (commercial accounts that shill will be banned); finally, 3) we can criticize their procedures as we please in this forum, without any form of censorship.

 


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Skeptical One

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Reply with quote  #11 
Sincerely thanks to everyone who's chimed in on this site's behalf.

What's ultimately lost in all of this is how in the end, this is my site and I can turn it into whatever I please. Like if I so-choose, this website will become a forum on pets, and we can discuss the whole dog vs cat thing. This sense of entitlement baffles me.

But I have obviously not chosen that route. I address things with Moderators who's opinions I value. I made this decision, and the monetary side of this site does not involve the other Moderators, only myself. And I have a simple reasoning behind why I provide Commercial Accounts. If & when (presumably) scrupulous and ethical physicians join our forum, we have no issue with it (example: Dr. Oates). But if they get to post freely, they are indirectly (or arguably even directly) advertising at this forum's expense. Given the audience they can reach in such a niche field, why wouldn't I collect for their "banner" space? So according to you, lengthordeath, this forum who really appreciates Dr. Oates input should just let him advertise freely? Yes, the membership system was to help fund the site while simultaneously avoiding the "pop-up ad" route. However, that doesn't mean that commercial interests can post here freely. This especially occurred to me when Dr. Oates reception was so good. Finally a no-B.S. medical professional joining the discussion. Everyone seemed to really benefit from the conversation.

Furthermore, the Commercial Account is afforded one "virtual ad"...it is just that, an ad. Can it be criticized, questioned, scrutinized, etc? Sure, start a thread in the General Phalloplasty Discussion and have at it. The idea that Moderators don't endorse or verify claims made by Commercial Accounts specifically apply to the virtual ad space, not actual discussion threads. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not. This is a hypothetical example: say Dr. Giunta wants to put up his own advertisement in the appropriate sub-forum. He can say you'll gain 2" x 2" all he wants, because it's simply that, an ad. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the legitimacy of his claims in the appropriate forums. You can highlight the absurdity of the claim and demand the doctor back up the claims found in his ad all you'd like. I make it very clear that these are sponsors and advertisements, if you have half a brain, you should be skeptical with any claims made. The great thing is, after reading an advertisement, you can actually search reviews of actual people having actual procedures done to determine how credible advertisement claims are.

And yes, there is a blacklist. There are physicians & clinics I will refuse to take any $$ from. I denied a handsome sum by Androfill when I could have tolerated their shilling attempts and turned a blind eye. There are physicians right now that I wont even return a correspondence to if they inquired about acquiring ad-space. So thanks, thanks a lot for comparing this site's endeavor to SLE 2.0. You've made a fan out of me.

But really, this is coming from a guy who's been registered for less than 3 months when this forum has been here 6 years. We've been through and seen a lot. Not sure you really value the bigger picture. I've bent over backwards for this forum, tell me lengthordeath, what obligation do I have to maintain or keep this forum running? I'm serious, please answer this question. I really have no interest in any other exchange until you can give me a damn good answer to this question. And an extension to this question, who do any of these Moderators feel the need to give and give? I know all of them to have taken phone calls (presumably at no cost, when their consultation is priceless), answered countless PMs & emails, and still stick around for guys like you. So answer these 2 questions please.

This kind of thread really ought to be in the Feedback Forum but I'll let it stay here for as much "transparency" (i.e. remaining visible) as we can offer.


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Todzilla

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Reply with quote  #12 
I've been around this forum almost 4 years. Lurked for about 6 months before registering. I can personally attest to the honesty & integrity of SO & moderators of this site. Mods and other members have messaged me responding to my inquiries and taken time out of their lives to help me. Information here is invaluable. I will, as pathetic as this might sound to alot of you, admit that this forum helped save my life at one point.  S.O. has been very generous with his time and money keeping the site afloat. I will admit, I would not have to the patience to deal with the shit SO and mods deal with on here. When people are willing to pay to travel to a different country and pay up to $3k for a procedure, then bitch about donating to the very site that probably gave them all the invaluable info to begin with I say this:

To the "numerous members who wish not to be publicly involved with this discussion"- Go start your own fucking site and pay for it yourself with your own time and money
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briceb

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Reply with quote  #13 
To everyone who has show support for SO and the moderators, thank you.  SO (besides being the owner) and the moderators, have no need to be here.  We are here to have a community where honest information is available.  Many, many of you are not aware of the beginnings of this forum and the deceit, corruption and harm that led to its inception.  We all have a desire to make sure that this forum is the place where that does not occur.  Personally, I have no other reason to be here.  

To those of you who question the integrity of this forum, you are free to not visit.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you type in the URL.  Simple as that.  
And on the integrity issue, if you really think that is an issue, why would SO or any of the mod team allow this thread to exist?  We could have easily deleted it as soon as it was posted.

But I know for a certain fact that many, many men (including some that have posted in this very thread) have utilized this forum to gain information and have taken the step to have a procedure.  Yet, they do not see any reason to donate to keep this forum alive.  I fully support SO in his decisions.  This is his site, after all.  He seeks and allows input from the moderators, but if he decided to pull the plug tomorrow, that is his call.  Let me ask you, where would you turn then?  What other forum has the wealth of information and member support as this one?  I actually encourage you to start your own site.  Pay for it out of your own pocket.  Make your own rules.  Deal with the crap that goes on behind the scenes.  Please, go ahead.  I am pretty certain that you would not have the dedication and determination to have the site last a year, much less the length of time this one has been around.

I am sick to death of the entitlement attitude the abounds.

__________________
A clear conscience is the sign of a bad memory.
CURRENT: EL 8"  EG 7" midshaft  FL 7-7.5"  FG 6.25-6.5"
GOALS: EL 9"  EG 7"  FL 8"+  FG 6.5"
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Sidelined

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Reply with quote  #14 
Of course a few people paying to keep this site going and a bunch of people freeloading isn't acceptable.

Just throwing it out there.
I don't see what would be so bad about having minimal pop-up ads for things like pumps and extenders, cheap viagra etc. These are all products that are used for real medical problems, like peyronie's disease and erectile dysfunction, and people get prescriptions for them from real doctors. As an aside they are also used in this community. Basically I'm just saying it would be ethical to advertise these products. In contrast to having a popup for an Elist implant.

That would be MY preferred method to dealing with the current situation. I have no idea if that would generate sufficient returns for SO. But I bet it would help.
I have no interest in enlarging my dick. Just a few minutes ago I was on a peyronies forum, and a guy referenced Elist and how it looked good. All the ......positive reviews. I wanted to show them what that dude "Basque" ended up like, even after Gelman fixed him up. But couldn't because the "progress reports" subforum is private.

I know I'm not a prominent member here, so my opinion doesn't matter. But I do believe $100 is quite over the top. There are almost 8500 members here, if you charged $10 lifetime membership, that's $85 000. That would pay for this place until the day we can manufacture an 8" cock in our own kitchen. And I think you would make more money that way as more people are going to go for that.

I know of a much smaller forum that has been successful for 15 years with a small lifetime membership and a single sponsor, no popups. Now, if this is to generate an income, that's different. And nothing wrong with that.
I hope that all came off as constructive, as that was my intention.


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briceb

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidelined
There are almost 8500 members here, if you charged $10 lifetime membership, that's $85 000. That would pay for this place until the day we can manufacture an 8" cock in our own kitchen. 


Thus the point of repeatedly asking (begging) for donations.  Yet people continued to use the forum without helping to support it and expecting it to always be there.

You did make some good constructive points, sidelined.

__________________
A clear conscience is the sign of a bad memory.
CURRENT: EL 8"  EG 7" midshaft  FL 7-7.5"  FG 6.25-6.5"
GOALS: EL 9"  EG 7"  FL 8"+  FG 6.5"
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