aleksk
I have been wanting to do something about my girth for a long time as it is affecting my life to a great extent (as I am sure many of you understand). I have come very close to getting PMMA, but have decided against it every time. I have some auto-immune issues (I'm a borderline Crohn's case) and I think it would be irresponsible for me to try PMMA. I care a lot about aesthetics and would be happy with even a little gain (going from 4.7 to 5.2, for example). I often read this board about guys who already have what I would kill for and still take big risks even at a very young age. But life is like that in every aspect, not just cock size. 

To cut my whinging short, I have decided to go for free fat transfer as an alternative. Now, from my lurking on cosmetic surgery boards (non PE), it seems like the skills of the injector is crucial for a good aesthetic outcome and even the survival rate of the fat. I know lumps and unevenness is still a possibility, but if millions of women do it in their faces and are just fine (for the most part), I guess I can try it in my dick. You can claim, the quantities in the face are much smaller and therefore less prone to lumps, complications etc., but as you can see my ambition is also small - it's not like I expect a miracle from this, just a bit of normalizing of my current situation. 

I am wondering, since C in TJ probably has dealt with more girth enhancements than most in the whole world, do you guys know if he might be practicing FFT as well? I don't know, if 1 in 10 of his cases were FFT, that still be a considerable volume of patients. Alternatively, do you know any other names you could recommend?

I'm from Australia, but have no intention of paying $35k or anything similar for what is, let's face it, risky and unreliable girth enhancement procedure. 

Ideally, I would find someone who both does free fat transfers regularly, is aware of the pitfalls, has perfected a technique, AND inject penises as opposed to cheekbones and tear-troughs only. 

I know this is not a procedure often discussed here, but it could be a viable alternative for many of us. 

Any other thoughts on FFT are welcome

Thanks 
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hoddle10
If you are from Australia then you should get FFT in Australia. Much of the fat will absorb and probably not evenly, so it will probably need to be maintained with semi regular top ups. You really don't want to have to fly to the other side of the world 2 or 3 times per year. We have an Aussie member called "finished" who had FFT. His original Dr didn't store fat, so I believe he found an different one who stored his fat and gave him regular top ups. You should PM him to find out more. 
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ilovetofu

If you are from Australia (as I am) you may want to pay a visit to Dr. David Caminer in Bondi Junction in Sydney. He is a plastic surgeon, practices Phalloplasty and is highly recommended. Dr. Caminer prefers fat injections which he claims to have had good results with. He says that he believes inserted dermis fat grafting or alloderm into the penis is fraught with danger as one can lose parts of the penile skin when degloving the penis to insert the dermis fat graft or the alloderm.

In the U.S. I would recommend Dr. Gary Alter who is a certified plastic surgeon and urologist. But at the moment he will not perform any girth enhancement procedures.

Dr. Alter says: "Injected fat tends to disappear over time. Large amounts of injected fat can cause penile distortion, fat nodules and lumps, and irregularity. The dermal fat graft procedure works very well most of the time and tends to stay permanently. However, some significant problems can occur, such as curvature and shortening. Alloderm has the advantage of avoiding the donor scar from the dermal fat graft. It is promising, but it is too soon to know if it will permanently last. Alloderm can also become infected or can cause shortening and possible curvature."

FAT INJECTION/TRANSFER

Fat transfer or penile fat injection is becoming a dated procedure due to the recent advances in treatment options, but many surgeons still commonly use this technique because of its verified history of success an inexpensiveness. FFT includes the acquisition of fat through liposuction or removal from areas such as your abdominal or thighs. Once acquired, your fat is then sanitized/purified and then injected into your penis.

Up to 50% or more in width expansion can be achieved with FFT, but the disadvantage of this procedure is the unpredictability over time. There is the issue of keeping the fat "alive" and fat is often reabsorbed back into your body leading to a loss of girth. What's worse it that your body may reabsorb the fat at an unbalanced rate – resulting in lumps, unevenness, and a visually unappealing look.

FAT GRAFTS

IMO I would stay away from Dermal Fat Grafts because they include unsightly scarring occurring from the incisions required to obtain the necessary grafts – largely around six inches by two inches. These large incisions need a considerable amount of time to heal.

ALLODERM

IMO I would stay away from Alloderm also. As Dr. Alter says, Alloderm has the advantage of avoiding the donor scar from the dermal fat graft but it can also become infected and can cause shortening and possible curvature. There are other issue also.

Alloderm is a type of graft obtained from a cadaver. The tissue itself is processed from a deceased human being, disease free according to reports issued from tissue banks that supply it, abiding by FDA regulations and AATB general rules. As a patient, you should consider asking your doctor where he intends on acquiring the sheets (grafts) of Alloderm to ensure safety measures are enforced. Bear in mind that some surgeons have reported inconsistencies in grafting materials sent from providers, leading practitioners to avoid Alloderm grafting treatments all together.

Before surgery the doctor prepares a predetermined amount of Alloderm for the procedure. Using a deceased person’s tissue excludes removing fat from your own body and in most cased does not cause scar damage due to the fact it is injected, reducing the total length of your operation and also eliminating the potential occurrence of pain or illness – according to doctors who have performed successful procedures.

Alloderm grafts are layered upon one another to reach a set width. Once inserted into the penis, your body will start to introduce new cells into the Alloderm tissue, causing blood vessels to grow into the grafts, then becoming part of your penises structure. Note that excessive layers of Alloderm can restrict blood circulation within your penis, causing portions of grafting material to die and lead to fibrosis. If fibrosis occurs, Alloderm tissue may gradually die, slowly hardening and consequently shortening your erect length.

BELLADERM

Belladerm is made from grafts from live donors that is customized by your surgeon for your procedure exclusively. Observed expansion measurements have reached up to 1.5 inches with minimal to no scarring involved. Belladerm is not cadaver tissue, rather healthy animated donor tissue, similar to the involvement of your donated tissue via another dermal grafting procedure. Because of how Belladerm is acquired, this type of tissue does not contain nerves/vessels, which could result in a prolonged recovery period.

I hope this information helps. IMO PMMA is still currently the best method for girth enhancement, or if not PMMA, the use of a temporary filler which has the advantage of removal without surgery should any major complication occur such as a negative immune response.

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aleksk
Thank you, I will PM him.

The thing is, and you may know this, we are now officially the most expensive country in the world. We are ripped off for everything, from basic services to cosmetic surgery, and often the quality is not there. A round of temporary fillers here cost as much as serious cosmetic surgeries do even in advanced countries in Europe or even US (not to mention Asia). I really can't afford to pay $20K or more as it turns out for this,as we all know how unreliable it is.

I think that's what "finished" says himself in his post - he found more FFT economically not viable and he was interested in PMMA. 

It's interesting with the uneven fat resorption, I have thought about this. I wonder why it happens. In face, this is not often the case. Most of the complaints are - it doesn't last, or a little survives, but women do not often report looking asymmetric from uneven resorption.

Then, there's Dr Coleman who injects even large quantities in the body. He is known to treat bodybuilders who want larger forearms (as they respond very little or none at all as you come close to the wrist) to weight-lifting. Here's an example http://www.lipostructure.com/blog/forearm-enlargement-with-coleman-fat-grafting/

As the fat transfer there was large, uneven resorption would show a lot, but it doesn't. And apparently it stayed.  So, I assume my goal of having only very modest enhancement should be feasible. 

But I totally get your point of the likely need for a 2nd round or even corrections (removal of lumps etc). I just wonder why these would happen on the penis, and not on the face or let's say, forearms. Is it ultimately, as they say, all about the technique and the injector? 

Please let me know your thoughts if you can. 
 
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aleksk
ilovetofu: Thank you, that was useful. Please let me know what you think about my question above - why would the penis be prone to uneven resorption as opposed to other parts of the body. 
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ilovetofu
There are plenty of examples of unevenness of fat absorption when used in the face, you can Google it. Bear in mind also the penis is soft tissue, not the same as injecting into an arm I would think.

Fat grafting is not an exact science and the final results depend on many variables, including the quality of the fat harvested, the technique used to process and transfer it, as well as the area it is being placed.

To reduce the chance of post-operative fat re-absorption, its possible to irrigate the fat with a solution of 100 U of regular insulin to stabilize lipocyte membrane, but I don't know how effective this is.
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hoddle10
In the face they use tiny amounts and you do hear of lumps. Also if you search for Coleman patients on forums, they are usually unhappy. Basically other areas of the body are prone to uneven absorption. The penis though is particularly tricky as it's a dynamic organ, with different skin thickness and tightness in different parts. It's just not very stable. If you apply different levels of compression to a fat transfer anywhere on the body, it would absorb at different rates. The penis naturally creates differing environments for the fat in different areas. The skin at the base tends to be thicker than at the tip for example. 

If fat could be reliably transferred, then why is there a multi billion dollar temporary filler industry? Why would anyone ever have Restylane etc injected into the face, when they could have their own fat which would last a life time. Or even if it was marketed as temporary it would still be as economically viable as temporary filler, as it can be stored for 2 years. The reasons surely has to be because temporary fillers are more predictable in terms of absorption. 

FFT can be a good option for some guys, but you've got to prepare yourself for the possibility of regular top ups. You might not need them, but you should prepare yourself for the very strong possibility. Hence staying in Aus is probably the best option. Caminer and Barnouti seem to be the most popular choices, but I'm unsure if they store fat. I think Finished my have had surgery with one of those 2, but then found a different Dr to store some fat and do regular top ups. 
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ilovetofu
euphoric1968 - "I am about to go to a Dr. to get it [FFT] all removed because it caused mild ED for me...gradually my erections were not as strong as they use to be."

hoddle10 - "I had my FFT removed 3 months ago, as I had lumps etc. I didn't realise it was effecting my erection quality, as I'd had it for so long and just became used to my erections being what they were. However, I've noticed since it's been removed that my erection quality has really improved...I simply hadn't realised the full extent of the negative effect the fat was having."
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kcchief
Ilovetofu,
Where the errections soft or firm?
Kcchief
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ilovetofu
the users who posted the comments would need to advise you on that. I've not had any FFT procedure done.
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aleksk
hoddle10: thanks for your advice, you're very helpful. 

Yes, I know what you mean about the penis being complex in terms of thickness and tightness in different areas, but so are breasts, and there are so many women who chose this over silicone implants A woman would be particularly self-conscious about uneven resorption and asymmetry in her boobs, and yet they do it because it yields good result. 

To answer your question, why multi-billion dollar filler industry exist: Because it's precisely that, multi-billion. It's enormous profits for manufacturers and practitioners. Let me put this in perspective in terms that people on this board can understand: If C in TJ, for example, was doing FFT, it would take him the time that he spends on 4 men now to treat only 1 man: first anesthesia, harvest fat, purify, second anesthesia, METICULOUSLY and painfully slow application (much slower than filler) etc, etc. The slower the application in painfully small chunks of fat, the better the result. Those forearm applications apparently take 5 yo 6 hours. 

Plus, temporary fillers are more reliable and some of them easily dissolvable: why bother with fat. 

This board has been a great source of information for me, but I think some critical thinking doesn't hurt. I do not think FFT is an inferior alternative to PMMA, especially not aesthetically. 


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hoddle10
The penis and breasts aren't comparable. One is a dynamic organ and the other isn't. 

My question was a rhetorical one. 

You are trying to convince yourself the solution you want to be the best is. Critical thinking doesn't hurt, but you aren't applying it. We aren't even comparing FFT with PMMA, as you've already stated PMMA isn't for you. We are talking about FFT in your home country Vs going abroad. On what FFT results are you basing your opinions? Seriously how many erect photos have you seen of FFT results? How many FFT reports have you read and what percentage of those guys didn't go back for top ups?

You need to be realistic and accept the chances are that with FFT you will need to have several procedures in order to maintain the result you want. So with that in mind, the cost of doing it in Australia isn't going to be anymore than going overseas. Anyway, I think FFT in Australia is about the same as in the UK. 
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ilovetofu
aleksk I also don't necessarily think FFT is inferior to PMMA or the other way around; they are simply very different procedures, and both have their negatives and positives.

But I tend to agree with hoddle's comments. IMO comparing breasts and the penis is not useful. I have done a lot of research into PE methods including the various options for fat transfer and IMO they are either too invasive and/or have high inconsistency in results. You can argue that new techniques make for more even distribution and absorption, but I am yet to see even a half decent amount of evidence of sustainable girth increases in the erect state over time. In fact its very hard to find many real-world cases that follow the progress of results for patients with fat transfer in the penis.

I have however found some evidence of the exact same fat transfer procedures with completely different outcomes. Whereas with PMMA there is much more evidence of consistent results and without the need for chronic top-ups over time. Of course there are a minority of cases where the outcome is not a success but this is rare and is usually related to either poor after-care, a negative immune system response (ex. granulomas) or people who engage in sex or rough masturbation too early and against the doctors advice.

In the end all we can do is to research, weigh up all the evidence and make the best informed decision we can. For some people fat transfer will be more appealing and less risky; for others it might be PMMA or even a temporary filler. Either way I wish you luck in your research and hope you get the best outcome possible.
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aleksk
Thank you both.

hoddle10, yes I am trying to rationalize here a decision I have already made. No, I haven't seen many reports or pictures from FFT, especially not over time.

ilovetofu - thanks for your thoughts. I will be documenting my journey here, so hopefully people here will have a decent long term FFT report from someone.  

I still don't think proximity would be crucial, because even if I must have a 2nd session, it's not like it's going to happen before several months lapse from the first one. And there is nothing you can do in the meantime to manage it. You basically wait. 

So, if anyone can think of a credible surgeon who doesn't charge extreme prices let me know. I wish I find someone in Korea as it is a convenient direct flight, and I'm sure the experience is there. It's just hard to find anything credible without speaking Korean. 

I think with FFT how they do it matters. If you find someone who will spend 5 or 6 hours painstakingly injecting tiniest bits at a time, it will turn out all right. The fact is most surgeons are chasing money, and it will be hard to find someone who will give you that much of a personalized approach. 

5 hours is nothing compared to a life time that I have to live with result. So, I'll keep searching, and any suggestions are welcome. 


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hoddle10
If I were you I'd seriously consider Dr Solomons widening procedure, but not the full wrap. 

I've seen so many problems with Allografts over the years, but I really think many of the drawbacks are lessened by using two strips and a tunneling technique. 

It's expensive, would require quite a bit of down time and is more risky. However, for those looking for a moderate gain, I really think it could be a good option. It's the procedure I'm most considering at the moment. 
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